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[11:35 AM PT] Vincent.Sylvester @hg.zetaworlds.com: Frankly it really seems like a distraction, look fancy new previews, don't pay attention to the dumpster fire over there | |||
[11:35 AM PT] Ubit Umarov: caps as in http capabilities they use | |||
[11:35 AM PT] Joe Magarac: Maybe the future of viewers is to have a web browser in the viewer to handle much of the 2D UI. | |||
[11:36 AM PT] Ubit Umarov: yeah joe | |||
[11:36 AM PT] Gavin.Hird @grid.xmir.org:8002: SL-18674 Remove UDP fallback for AIS caps not present | |||
[11:36 AM PT] Ubit Umarov: yes they told they would do that | |||
[11:36 AM PT] Ubit Umarov: no problem.. for SL | |||
[11:37 AM PT] Gavin.Hird @grid.xmir.org:8002: sure, when the UI is completely rewriten. It is currently rendered in the OPenGL view | |||
[11:37 AM PT] Ubit Umarov: ( joe was not been ironic? ) | |||
[11:37 AM PT] Joe Magarac: A few parts of search and the destinations guide are already in a web browser, I think. | |||
[11:37 AM PT] Ubit Umarov: sound like very ironic to me :p | |||
[11:37 AM PT] Ubit Umarov: well they had web only profiles and moved back to inviewer one | |||
[11:38 AM PT] Gavin.Hird @grid.xmir.org:8002: rendered in an opengl window with a terrible hack | |||
[11:38 AM PT] Gavin.Hird @grid.xmir.org:8002: web profiles are removed | |||
[11:38 AM PT] Kayaker Magic: Beq did a joke video once showing the viewer UI re-written to move the dialogs outside the OpenGl window... | |||
[11:38 AM PT] Gavin.Hird @grid.xmir.org:8002: Search will be rewamped too as I understand it | |||
[11:39 AM PT] Vincent.Sylvester @hg.zetaworlds.com: Meant to all move into websearch in some form | |||
[11:39 AM PT] Vincent.Sylvester @hg.zetaworlds.com: For better or worse | |||
[11:39 AM PT] Ubit Umarov: not sure why there was no efford to make a openGL ( or something ) UI | |||
[11:39 AM PT] Ubit Umarov: every single game or gfame engine has to make its own.. even doing the very basic fonts support | |||
[11:39 AM PT] Vincent.Sylvester @hg.zetaworlds.com: That april fools version of FS with the floaters detached from the main view would have been so cool to have | |||
[11:40 AM PT] Ubit Umarov: in old win one could deatach tabs into own windoes | |||
[11:40 AM PT] Orbert.Tatham @hg.zetaworlds.com: Many have asked foro it | |||
[11:40 AM PT] Ubit Umarov: on desktop.. for some reason that is less supported | |||
[11:40 AM PT] Gavin.Hird @grid.xmir.org:8002: with a codebase that is almost 25 years, it is difficult to manage | |||
[11:41 AM PT] Ubit Umarov: not sure if issue is old code or new programmers.. but never mind ;) | |||
[11:41 AM PT] Joe Magarac: LL can hire people to do web-like stuff easily. | |||
[11:42 AM PT] Gavin.Hird @grid.xmir.org:8002: the main issue is backward compatibiliyt for everything people have created | |||
[11:42 AM PT] Gavin.Hird @grid.xmir.org:8002: web apps are such a no-no | |||
[11:42 AM PT] Ubit Umarov: well only recently they did hire back ppl with low level graphics skills | |||
[11:42 AM PT] Ubit Umarov: but well that is LL... | |||
[11:42 AM PT] Orbert.Tatham @hg.zetaworlds.com: It is beancounters failing to manage | |||
[11:42 AM PT] Orbert.Tatham @hg.zetaworlds.com: Typical | |||
[11:42 AM PT] Joe Magarac: Over the last 18 months LL has been adding game dev people. | |||
[11:43 AM PT] Ubit Umarov: they can do whatever they want for their product SL | |||
[11:43 AM PT] Gavin.Hird @grid.xmir.org:8002: The most importsant thing is that the replacement for Oz is a Mixrosoftie | |||
[11:43 AM PT] Gavin.Hird @grid.xmir.org:8002: Microsoftie | |||
[11:43 AM PT] Orbert.Tatham @hg.zetaworlds.com: Pathetic | |||
[11:43 AM PT] Ubit Umarov: we are not SL.. can't do ( in some cases will not want to do ) all those changes | |||
[11:43 AM PT] Gavin.Hird @grid.xmir.org:8002: his head is only screwed on the Microsoft way | |||
[11:43 AM PT] Orbert.Tatham @hg.zetaworlds.com: Which is to say it isn't really attached | |||
[11:44 AM PT] Gavin.Hird @grid.xmir.org:8002: hehe | |||
[11:44 AM PT] Ubit Umarov: well oz made the move from lludp to http.. not that good in all cases | |||
[11:44 AM PT] Orbert.Tatham @hg.zetaworlds.com: Not sure Oz had any choice | |||
[11:44 AM PT] Ubit Umarov: the new guy is not has visible has oz was is he? | |||
[11:44 AM PT] Ubit Umarov: ..as.. | |||
[11:44 AM PT] Cuga.Rajal @rajal.org:9000: seems much is dependent on what happens to FS viewer for OS too, what direction they go | |||
[11:44 AM PT] Gavin.Hird @grid.xmir.org:8002: Remember they were planning to move all to Sansar when he did so | |||
[11:44 AM PT] Gavin.Hird @grid.xmir.org:8002: so most likely had a lot to do with that | |||
[11:45 AM PT] Ubit Umarov: so.. back to opensim :) | |||
[11:46 AM PT] Ubit Umarov: as i said, no plans to implement AIS in near future.. not only it is a nonsense heavy protocol, as it will mean a huge code change | |||
[11:46 AM PT] Gavin.Hird @grid.xmir.org:8002: yes | |||
[11:46 AM PT] Ubit Umarov: that will reac grids in possible 2 years.. | |||
[11:46 AM PT] Gavin.Hird @grid.xmir.org:8002: imagine standalone with AIS | |||
[11:46 AM PT] Ubit Umarov: because grids do not update opensim that fast | |||
[11:47 AM PT] Ubit Umarov: so TPVs for opensim need to keep old inventory code, for a few more years.. | |||
[11:47 AM PT] Gavin.Hird @grid.xmir.org:8002: I have two repos now one for each | |||
[11:47 AM PT] Vincent.Sylvester @hg.zetaworlds.com: Or until LL figures out it was a bad idea and changes their mind again | |||
[11:47 AM PT] Ubit Umarov: .. yes one of tpvs dev already told me his viewer will no longer support opensim.. sad.. but it is what it is | |||
[11:48 AM PT] Gavin.Hird @grid.xmir.org:8002: Alchemy? | |||
[11:48 AM PT] Ubit Umarov: not pointing a finger... ;) | |||
[11:48 AM PT] Gavin.Hird @grid.xmir.org:8002: a fact is a fact | |||
[11:48 AM PT] Orbert.Tatham @hg.zetaworlds.com: Seems like the rest of us could use that info too | |||
[11:48 AM PT] Ubit Umarov: well ppl do change minds.. so lets see | |||
[11:49 AM PT] Joe Magarac: I'm wondering how much I can support, myself. Sharpview is totally organized for variable sized regions but I haven't even started on inventory yet. | |||
[11:49 AM PT] Joe Magarac: Login, move, view yes - beyond that, I'll need help. | |||
[11:49 AM PT] Ubit Umarov: not sure we will work on those tiny icons for inventory items | |||
[11:50 AM PT] Gavin.Hird @grid.xmir.org:8002: I am not going to take the AIS cnahges for teh opensim version | |||
[11:50 AM PT] Ubit Umarov: sounds like a large waste of resources of limite use | |||
[11:50 AM PT] Gavin.Hird @grid.xmir.org:8002: maybe perhaps the code to open a folder in a separate window | |||
[11:50 AM PT] Gavin.Hird @grid.xmir.org:8002: which could be useful when building | |||
[11:51 AM PT] Ubit Umarov: that is at higher level in code ( or should be ) | |||
[11:51 AM PT] Joe Magarac: Yes, this is starting to look like inventory as a separate window, run in the embedded browser. | |||
[11:51 AM PT] Gavin.Hird @grid.xmir.org:8002: it is mostly UI | |||
[11:51 AM PT] Gavin.Hird @grid.xmir.org:8002: terrible idea | |||
[11:51 AM PT] Ubit Umarov: joe embeded brower is damm slow... | |||
[11:51 AM PT] Joe Magarac: I know. Why is that? | |||
[11:51 AM PT] Gavin.Hird @grid.xmir.org:8002: all browser is rendered in opengl | |||
[11:51 AM PT] Ubit Umarov: well its CEF :) | |||
[11:52 AM PT] Gavin.Hird @grid.xmir.org:8002: cef, google code full of all kinds of shit | |||
[11:52 AM PT] Joe Magarac: Hm. Must think about this. Will talk to Beq. | |||
[11:52 AM PT] Orbert.Tatham @hg.zetaworlds.com: How do you "wear" something? How does the viewer pass back that info? | |||
[11:52 AM PT] Orbert.Tatham @hg.zetaworlds.com: if you separate it into the browser | |||
[11:53 AM PT] Ubit Umarov: think there is no glue btw brower and UI | |||
[11:53 AM PT] Gavin.Hird @grid.xmir.org:8002: it will make thing infinitely harder to try use the browser | |||
[11:53 AM PT] Ubit Umarov: brower is web wonly | |||
[11:53 AM PT] Orbert.Tatham @hg.zetaworlds.com: Which means your are braking the inventory integration with the rest of the viewer | |||
[11:53 AM PT] Ubit Umarov: drwas its things on it is mostly a texture for opengl ??? | |||
[11:54 AM PT] Orbert.Tatham @hg.zetaworlds.com: *breaking | |||
[11:54 AM PT] Gavin.Hird @grid.xmir.org:8002: browser is run as a separate detached process ourtside the viewer sandbox, and you have to poke a hole in it to make the viewer inject oages that opengl can render | |||
[11:54 AM PT] Orbert.Tatham @hg.zetaworlds.com: There are several inventory functions that require integration | |||
[11:55 AM PT] Gavin.Hird @grid.xmir.org:8002: so it is very flaky, also from a security point of view | |||
[11:55 AM PT] Ubit Umarov: nop ide if even CEF as the low level api needed to full control a UI inside a page | |||
[11:55 AM PT] Joe Magarac: Or at least communication. | |||
[11:55 AM PT] Orbert.Tatham @hg.zetaworlds.com: Right click in the inventory window and look at the list of things | |||
[11:55 AM PT] Orbert.Tatham @hg.zetaworlds.com: All of those require integration | |||
[11:55 AM PT] Orbert.Tatham @hg.zetaworlds.com: Something is very wrong with this picture | |||
[11:56 AM PT] Joe Magarac: Yeah. Needs more thought. | |||
[11:56 AM PT] Joe Magarac: Have to go; back next week. Thanks. | |||
[11:56 AM PT] Cuga.Rajal @rajal.org:9000: Bye Joe | |||
[11:56 AM PT] Ubit Umarov: cya joe | |||
[11:56 AM PT] Orbert.Tatham @hg.zetaworlds.com: This is Linden comping up with this idea, right? What else is new | |||
[11:56 AM PT] Vincent.Sylvester @hg.zetaworlds.com: "Needs more thought" LL motto right there | |||
[11:56 AM PT] Ubit Umarov: what idea orbert.Tatham ? | |||
[11:57 AM PT] Orbert.Tatham @hg.zetaworlds.com: The inventory in a browser window | |||
[11:57 AM PT] Gavin.Hird @grid.xmir.org:8002: I think they are working on a viewer for Xbox, and it has to be shiny and have all kinds of stuff other xbox games / apps have | |||
[11:57 AM PT] Ubit Umarov: not sure if they even consider that | |||
[11:58 AM PT] Orbert.Tatham @hg.zetaworlds.com: What else is new | |||
[11:58 AM PT] Cuga.Rajal @rajal.org:9000: I need to head out soon | |||
[11:58 AM PT] Cuga.Rajal @rajal.org:9000: FYI I will be absent from this meeting for the next few weeks, back in November | |||
[11:58 AM PT] Orbert.Tatham @hg.zetaworlds.com: Laterz Cuga | |||
[11:58 AM PT] Cuga.Rajal @rajal.org:9000: so don;t fix any bugs with unmanaged libs :) | |||
[11:58 AM PT] Ubit Umarov: oh ok Cuga.Rajal | |||
[11:58 AM PT] Vincent.Sylvester @hg.zetaworlds.com: Knowing the xbox clientele that'll mesh really well with the folks usually hanging out on SL, that'll be pretty explosion to watch | |||
[11:59 AM PT] Cuga.Rajal @rajal.org:9000: a lot of emotional chat threads now in SL about viewer direction | |||
[12:00 PM PT] Ubit Umarov: well any othet topic? | |||
[12:00 PM PT] Gavin.Hird @grid.xmir.org:8002: are there? | |||
[12:00 PM PT] Gavin.Hird @grid.xmir.org:8002: not really | |||
[12:00 PM PT] Ubit Umarov: browsing log bf i arrived.. rasp 5 :) | |||
[12:01 PM PT] Gavin.Hird @grid.xmir.org:8002: I only made the viewers compile with Xcode 15 and C 17 the past week | |||
[12:01 PM PT] Orbert.Tatham @hg.zetaworlds.com: I seriously hope that Joe will make a viewer that will stick with OpenSim, because these kind of LL f'ups are going to make that very difficult even for Beq | |||
[12:01 PM PT] Ubit Umarov: seems AIS was the main topic today :) | |||
[12:01 PM PT] Cuga.Rajal @rajal.org:9000: or Gavin | |||
[12:01 PM PT] Cuga.Rajal @rajal.org:9000: or both :) | |||
[12:03 PM PT] Ubit Umarov: if you look to that SL wiki gavin pasted for AIS you notice it is a 2013 thing | |||
[12:03 PM PT] Ubit Umarov: that even ll ignored until now | |||
[12:03 PM PT] Orbert.Tatham @hg.zetaworlds.com: Perhaps they are smarter than they realized | |||
[12:04 PM PT] Ubit Umarov: https://wiki.secondlife.com/w/index.php?title=Linden_Lab_Official:Inventory_API_v3 | |||
[12:04 PM PT] Ubit Umarov: or where? :P | |||
[12:05 PM PT] Ubit Umarov: in fact they did noy update that since 2013 ir seems | |||
[12:05 PM PT] Ubit Umarov: so already outdated... | |||
[12:05 PM PT] Orbert.Tatham @hg.zetaworlds.com: It was outdated when it was created, but that hasn't changed anything | |||
[12:06 PM PT] Kayaker Magic: Gota run, RL chores to get to | |||
[12:06 PM PT] Gavin.Hird @grid.xmir.org:8002: they are not fast to update their documentation... | |||
[12:06 PM PT] Cuga.Rajal @rajal.org:9000: I need to head aout too.. Take care everybody. See you in November | |||
[12:06 PM PT] Ubit Umarov: wlel rl calls me... | |||
[12:06 PM PT] Ubit Umarov: again sorry i was so late :( | |||
[12:07 PM PT] Ubit Umarov: any other urgent topic? | |||
[12:08 PM PT] Ubit Umarov: ok see you all next week | |||
[12:08 PM PT] Orbert.Tatham @hg.zetaworlds.com: Peace | |||
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Version du 2 novembre 2023 à 12:00
Changements du code de la semaine
Noyau
Base de données
Modules
Bugs
Tests
Projets en cours / Infos
Viewers
Viewer AIS
- Viewer SL par défaut depuis cette semaine : modification de l'inventaire pour prendre en charge de nouvelles infobulles.
- API d'inventaire V3 Linden Lab Officiel
- Il n'est pas prévu de supporter cela dans un futur proche pour OpenSim. Les viewers pour opensim devraient garder les anciennes méthodes lludp / caps.
Source
http://opensimulator.org/wiki/Chat_log_from_the_meeting_on_2023-10-03