Réunion du 31-05-2022

Source : http://opensimulator.org/wiki/Chat_log_from_the_meeting_on_2022-05-31

Introduction

[10:59] Andrew Hellershanks : Bonjour, tout le monde.

[10:59] NevenNate Howell : Bonjour

[10:59] Andrew Hellershanks : oooh... chat lag

[11:00] Andrew Hellershanks : Bonjour, Selby.

[11:00] Ubit Umarov : Bonjour.

[11:00] Selby.Evans @grid.kitely.com:8002 : Bonjour à tous.

[11:00] Ubit Umarov : Bienvenue.

[11:00] NevenNate Howell : bonjour

[11:02] Vincent.Sylvester @hg.zetaworlds.com:8002 : Il n'y a pas eu beaucoup d'activité cette semaine, une modification mineure de movetotarget a été effectuée.

[11:02] Vincent.Sylvester @hg.zetaworlds.com:8002 : J'ai quelques points à suivre, mais rien de concret pour l'instant.

[11:02] Andrew Hellershanks : Bonjour, NevenNate. Bienvenue à la réunion des développeurs d'OpenSimulator. Malgré le nom, vous n'avez pas besoin d'être un développeur pour être ici.

[11:03] Vincent.Sylvester @hg.zetaworlds.com:8002 : J'ai effectué quelques modifications mineures sur le fork Gloebit pour corriger certains crashs qu'il provoque, mais je n'ai pas encore terminé.

[11:03] Vincent.Sylvester @hg.zetaworlds.com:8002 : Dans l'idéal, il faudrait que ce module soit en mode failsafe pour ne pas faire planter tout le simulateur.

[11:03] NevenNate Howell : J'ai lu office hours avant de venir.

[11:03] Ubit Umarov : vincent, ce n'est pas un changement du code principal.

[11:03] Ubit Umarov : continuons à parler des changements du code principal d'opensim, ok ?

[11:04] Ubit Umarov : à moins que tu aies soumis un patch, je n'ai pas remarqué :).

[11:04] Vincent.Sylvester @hg.zetaworlds.com:8002 : Nan, je creusais surtout parce que ça montrait le pilote mysql comme étant la cause, mais finalement c'était juste dans le module. Je ne sais pas si tu partages cette opinion, mais je pense que les modules ne devraient jamais causer de crashs par eux-mêmes.

[11:04] Ubit Umarov : Et oui, la semaine dernière, nous avons reçu des rapports de 2 problèmes sur le traitement de la récente mise à jour du mouvement des avatars.

[11:06] Ubit Umarov : llmovetotarget sur les pièces jointes ne fonctionnait pas bien... corrigé maintenant.

[11:06] Ubit Umarov : l'autre rapport concernait la fonction "mousewalk" d'un viewer.

[11:06] Ubit Umarov : en utilisant cela, l'avatar se déplace maintenant plus lentement.

[11:07] Ubit Umarov : le problème est que les vierwers n'ont pas la force de marcher.?

[11:07] Ubit Umarov: like 3 variations at least [11:07] Ubit Umarov: in fact could be 9 combinatiosn [11:08] Ubit Umarov: using keyboard, it sends nudge mov comand for 250ms of key press [11:08] Ubit Umarov: then changes to telling move And Move fast, 2 flags set at same time [11:08] Ubit Umarov: so there is a low speed move for 250ms, then normal speed that is actualy normal + fast, currently [11:09] Ubit Umarov: on top of that there is run.. but run is on other protocol message [11:09] Ubit Umarov: now that mousewalk is a viewers hack triggers the keys [11:10] Ubit Umarov: BUT.. thye never fixed the timer.., mouse has not keypressed timer, [11:10] Ubit Umarov: code uses the same key press.. since there was no key press, that pressed time is zero [11:11] Ubit Umarov: so.. mousewalk only tells region to move the avatar slowly.. [11:12] Ubit Umarov: seems SL downgrade regions quality, and they only have one "speed/strength" so we don't notice this there [11:12] Ubit Umarov: such downgrade means that the minimal avater step is 1 to 1.5m [11:12] Ubit Umarov: pretty bad [11:13] Ubit Umarov: currently we have that cut to half [11:13] Ubit Umarov: and not going to break that, just because incomplete viewer feature code [11:14] Vincent.Sylvester @hg.zetaworlds.com:8002: FS now has a issue open for that so maybe they can send the correct data over that would be the best solution [11:14] Vincent.Sylvester @hg.zetaworlds.com:8002: More code added on movement just makes it behave slower and clunkier, no need to make a mess there [11:16] Ubit Umarov: well they have to had a timer to that left on avatar click + right click thing [11:16] Ubit Umarov: also notice that on FS, left click on a prim with touch_start , opens edit on it [11:17] Ubit Umarov: alch does not seem to do that [11:17] Ubit Umarov: and also has the mousewalk feature [11:17] Ubit Umarov: that is in fact nice [11:18] Ubit Umarov: well the slow speed is only a issue if you want to walk long distance [11:18] Ubit Umarov: everyone calls a taxi this days.. who walks?? [11:19] Ubit Umarov: ;) [11:19] Vincent.Sylvester @hg.zetaworlds.com:8002: I double click teleport, that was broken in FS for a while would trigger every time, that was... not fun lol [11:19] Ubit Umarov: :) [11:20] Andrew Hellershanks: If I have to go a long way inworld I fly (when allowed) or run. [11:20] Ubit Umarov: better have those mouse actions just disable [11:20] Ubit Umarov: not that easy to not click on wrong spot [11:21] Ubit Umarov: like click on animesth things [11:21] Ubit Umarov: jezz very hard to do :) [11:21] Vincent.Sylvester @hg.zetaworlds.com:8002: Would be neat to have it in combo with a modifier key, but hey at least I don't have to use the map to teleport, that would be pain [11:22] Ubit Umarov: this is mousewalk [11:22] Ubit Umarov: not that slow slow i guess [11:22] Vincent.Sylvester @hg.zetaworlds.com:8002: You notice that quite a bit when you fiddle with the divisors for walking speed [11:23] Andrew Hellershanks: I'd say that is a reasonable walking speed. [11:23] Vincent.Sylvester @hg.zetaworlds.com:8002: Some people want to Bolt everywhere heh [11:23] Ubit Umarov: ofc thois region is on defaults [11:23] Vincent.Sylvester @hg.zetaworlds.com:8002: I made walk even slower to match the animation via the constant so I didn't notice it at all [11:23] Ubit Umarov: yeah our keys walk alrady looks like running [11:23] Ubit Umarov: see [11:24] Vincent.Sylvester @hg.zetaworlds.com:8002: forward moonwalk [11:24] Vincent.Sylvester @hg.zetaworlds.com:8002: Skating along [11:24] Ubit Umarov: hmm?~ [11:24] Andrew Hellershanks: There is a bit of that [11:24] Ubit Umarov: im not mickel jackson [11:24] Ubit Umarov: u don't moonwalk :p [11:24] Ubit Umarov: err i dont [11:25] Vincent.Sylvester @hg.zetaworlds.com:8002: Avatar key run is faster than I can ride my bike most roads [11:25] Ubit Umarov: seen on a viewer a moonwalk option [11:25] Andrew Hellershanks: The walking animation and forward motion have never been 100% synchronized. [11:26] Ubit Umarov: but didn't test it, when went back looking, did not found it :P [11:26] Ubit Umarov: No [11:26] NevenNate Howell: could there be a set speed, with a is_running bool true/false saved on sim like in most games then x2 speed [11:26] Ubit Umarov: viewers do change animation rate, based on speed [11:26] Ubit Umarov: at least should.. [11:27] Ubit Umarov: there is the always running [11:28] Ubit Umarov: tap tap hold does work on with the mouse [11:28] Andrew Hellershanks: Whether walking or running there is a slight slippage of the foot on the ground that can be seen if one looks closely. [11:29] Ubit Umarov: none of thise things was made to close look [11:29] Andrew Hellershanks: :) [11:29] Ubit Umarov: everything fails on close look [11:30] Ubit Umarov: it still takes a lot of imagination to feel the gaps [11:30] Ubit Umarov: "immersion" [11:31] Ubit Umarov: avatars looking more like cartoons may improve that actually [11:31] Ubit Umarov: brain is ness prone to compare with rl [11:31] Ubit Umarov: but just guessing [11:31] Andrew Hellershanks nods [11:32] Ubit Umarov: well on the other hand brain also does fixe those isues [11:33] Ubit Umarov: bc brain does not see what is there, but what it expects to be there.. [11:33] Ubit Umarov: ( like the mars face.. horses rinding in clouds.. etc etc ) [11:33] Selby.Evans @grid.kitely.com:8002: In RL we have quantum mechanics that is more weird than what I see with close inspection in OS. [11:33] Ubit Umarov: well yeah [11:34] Ubit Umarov: but luckly quatum effects at human size scale are rare things in rl [11:34] Ubit Umarov: tunneling would be disturbing thing [11:35] Ubit Umarov: ohh tanks here have a extra armour thing [11:36] Ubit Umarov: is they stop a X meters from target, bullets tunnel not touching them :P [11:37] Ubit Umarov: ( consequence of simulation only in timesteps of 20ms ))no whisper echo) [11:37] Vincent.Sylvester @hg.zetaworlds.com:8002: Btw the meeting logs for the 24th are still missing from the wiki [11:38] Ubit Umarov: so fun seeing in tv car wheels moving back [11:38] Ubit Umarov: or heli blades, etc [11:38] Kayaker Magic: Have I missed much? [11:38] Ubit Umarov: i did add a limit to angular motion to avoid that here [11:39] Ubit Umarov: not that nice [11:39] Andrew Hellershanks: Vincent, That's odd. I was sure I posted the log to the wiki last week. [11:39] Ubit Umarov: but does irritate me seening in games also, wheels moving back [11:39] NevenNate Howell: talk on mouse movement Kayaker [11:39] Andrew Hellershanks: Hello, Kayaker. [11:39] Andrew Hellershanks: Not that much. [11:39] Ubit Umarov: or WoT tanks tracks [11:40] Ubit Umarov: ( thats nyquist sampling theorem / sampling aliasing ) [11:41] Ubit Umarov: i still didnt look to ODE ray/terrain code :) [11:41] Ubit Umarov: still on TODO [11:41] Selby.Evans @grid.kitely.com:8002: avatar tunneling: Pass through walls

You need double-click move (above) turned on. You just need to cam to the inside of a place and use the double-click to there. To cam through a wall, zoom up close to it. Then rotate your view (side-pointing arrow) till you see the other side. This won't work in a place where the TP landing point is set. [11:42] Andrew Hellershanks: Vincent, log has been posted. [11:42] Vincent.Sylvester @hg.zetaworlds.com:8002: Merci [11:43] Ubit Umarov: think i made physics sit on prims a bit tp also :) [11:43] Ubit Umarov: should realy put restrictions on them [11:44] Ubit Umarov: in fact limit those sits to avatars on same parcel [11:44] Andrew Hellershanks: That would be a good idea. [11:45] Ubit Umarov: don't remember not, but at thing they had 10m range [11:45] Ubit Umarov: think [11:45] Ubit Umarov: err and not? now ! [11:46] Ubit Umarov: but sit on a roof or something is a fast way to get someplace :) [11:47] Andrew Hellershanks: That is true but I do find that some objects don't let you sit so that doesn't always work. [11:48] Ubit Umarov: A) you need ubode [11:48] Ubit Umarov: b) the prim must have nice physics mesh [11:49] Andrew Hellershanks: As it doesn't always seem to work with standard prims it could be the regions weren't using ubode. [11:50] Ubit Umarov: it works with standard non phantom prims [11:51] Andrew Hellershanks: We are at 10 minutes left in the hour. Any other topics for discussion today? [11:51] Ubit Umarov: see? [11:52] Andrew Hellershanks nods to Ubit [11:52] Ubit Umarov: if you hit a phantom, it does like bullet.. puts you on a silly place [11:53] Vincent.Sylvester @hg.zetaworlds.com:8002: After the fourth time being catapulted into space I made a habit now to add sit and stand targets to everything [11:53] Ubit Umarov: mesh makers also forget this [11:54] Ubit Umarov: the mesh for physics should also be ok for sits, and also ok for raycasts [11:54] Ubit Umarov: not only script but the camera ones also [11:54] Andrew Hellershanks: I suspect a lot of mesh makers may not think about the raycasting part. [11:55] Ubit Umarov: many don't even think physics :) [11:55] Andrew Hellershanks: :) [11:55] Ubit Umarov: well seems ll plans to change meshs and materials [11:55] Ubit Umarov: so, we may lose viewers, if thy decide to change to that losing "legacy" [11:55] Andrew Hellershanks: Is there any note(s) in the wiki about mesh and what one needs to take in to account re: sits and raycasts? [11:56] Ubit Umarov: possible they can't bc SL is filled with "legacy" [11:58] Ubit Umarov: have a viewer dev giving me such news, as if that will be the end of opensim [11:59] Ubit Umarov: when it will, at most, be the end of that viewer on opensim, unless it stays complatible [11:59] Ubit Umarov: and compatible [11:59] Andrew Hellershanks nods [11:59] Ubit Umarov: but well people said things.. [11:59] Ubit Umarov: lets wait and see [12:00] Andrew Hellershanks: Right. If it is just something that LL is "planning on doing" there is little point in worrying about it until they say they are doing it. [12:01] Ubit Umarov: yeah [12:01] Ubit Umarov: actuall more than that [12:01] Ubit Umarov: until a TPV does add that code is a usable way [12:02] Ubit Umarov: i don't look to SL viewers code, for features [12:02] NevenNate Howell: Their are viewers that are optimized for opensim because they did not like the changes in SL [12:02] Ubit Umarov: those do not work on opensim [12:02] Ubit Umarov: i only look to code of viewers "for opensim" [12:03] Kayaker Magic: I try to go to the TPV meetings, but missed the last few. Have they moved to a different time or location? [12:03] Ubit Umarov: wel and only a few :) [12:03] Ubit Umarov: no idea [12:03] Ubit Umarov: looked on the movies site? [12:04] Ubit Umarov: https://www.youtube.com/c/PanteraPolnocy [12:04] Ubit Umarov: keeps a record of meetings like that [12:04] Ubit Umarov: and other things :) [12:04] Ubit Umarov: last there seems to be may 13 [12:05] NevenNate Howell: Firestorm does not work on standalone out of box by the way I had to download cool viewer [12:05] Ubit Umarov: works fine for mw [12:05] Ubit Umarov: well or did several long weeks ago [12:06] Andrew Hellershanks: Really? I haven't used my Standalone that recently but I have never noticed an issue accessing it with FS. [12:06] NevenNate Howell: I tried mine yesterday new OS and Firestorm and it just hangs [12:06] Ubit Umarov: last time i did run a standalone :) [12:06] NevenNate Howell: I just accepted everything that did not require an entry [12:06] Andrew Hellershanks: NevenNate, What happens when you try using FS with a standalone? [12:07] NevenNate Howell: It just hangs [12:07] Andrew Hellershanks: On startup or when trying to login? [12:07] NevenNate Howell: Cool logs right in but firestorm does nothing but says cannot connect even if I run both at the same time [12:07] NevenNate Howell: login [12:07] Andrew Hellershanks: ok [12:08] Andrew Hellershanks: I'm starting up my Standalone copy of OS. [12:09] Vincent.Sylvester @hg.zetaworlds.com:8002: If you believe there to be an issue with OpenSim in that regard putting a mantis ticket with log files in would help, difficult to debug these things without seeing what goes on [12:09] Vincent.Sylvester @hg.zetaworlds.com:8002: A connection failure and stuck login generally hints at bad network configuration [12:09] NevenNate Howell: Ill try to figure it out I dont think its OS I think its FS [12:09] NevenNate Howell: like I said Cool works fine [12:11] NevenNate Howell: I just don't use SL anymore and see no Firestorm stuff posted for OS so thought I would mention it [12:11] Selby.Evans @grid.kitely.com:8002: Scenegate works fine [12:12] Andrew Hellershanks: Check the OS console for any messages that might indicate the source of the problem. [12:12] Ubit Umarov: working fine for me [12:13] Ubit Umarov: just did update a standalone, fired it and did log fine with fs 66095 [12:13] Ubit Umarov: 6.5.5 [12:13] Selby.Evans @grid.kitely.com:8002: must go -- bye all [12:13] Ubit Umarov: cya [12:13] NevenNate Howell: Ill run stuff on my end and see If I can find the problem then [12:14] NevenNate Howell: ill let you all know [12:14] Andrew Hellershanks: ok, Selby. See you next week. [12:14] NevenNate Howell: good day everyone [12:14] Ubit Umarov: ports at opensim.ini and regions.ini are the usual [12:14] Ubit Umarov: noobs issue :p [12:14] Ubit Umarov: ( and less noobs also ) [12:15] Andrew Hellershanks: I logged in to my standalone using OS that I last built on May 4 [12:17] Ubit Umarov: Oh [12:17] Andrew Hellershanks: NevenNate, let us know what you find. I'm testing it now with OS that I built just now. [12:17] Ubit Umarov: seems metro gird will close [12:17] Ubit Umarov: grid.. [12:17] Ubit Umarov: they have it on their news site [12:18] Vincent.Sylvester @hg.zetaworlds.com:8002: Surprised me quite a bit [12:19] Andrew Hellershanks: I don't think I've ever been there. [12:20] Ubit Umarov: one person that used to be part of the admin, used to be here on al meetings [12:20] Andrew Hellershanks: Hm... my Standalone is throwing out some errors from ubODE -> invalid degenerated mesh [12:20] Ubit Umarov: sheera? [12:21] Andrew Hellershanks: Oh, Sheera. Haven't seen Sheera in a long time. [12:21] Ubit Umarov: yeah guess years even :( [12:21] Ubit Umarov: used to sit here to my left [12:21] Ubit Umarov: hm and did the logs no? [12:22] Andrew Hellershanks: I just logged in to my Standalone using FS 6.5.3 without any problem, [12:23] Vincent.Sylvester @hg.zetaworlds.com:8002: Kinda sad to see them go, they been a constant for a long time [12:23] Andrew Hellershanks: I remember the tiger(?) avatar. [12:23] Ubit Umarov: yes the avatar was like a tiger [12:23] Ubit Umarov: humanoid tiger :) [12:23] Andrew Hellershanks nods [12:24] Andrew Hellershanks: My friends list showed that she came in to this meeting via metro.land. [12:24] Andrew Hellershanks: I should pop over to metro to leave her a message before that grid closes down. [12:25] Andrew Hellershanks: On that note, I think it is time to close down this meeting. [12:25] Ubit Umarov: think she was about to leave metro also [12:25] Ubit Umarov: rl things [12:25] Andrew Hellershanks: We were a small group this week. Thank you all for coming. See you again next week.